After a day to digest what happened yesterday having bad games happens most of the time not back to back but these things do happen and by judging scores from across the football Saturday slate of games I do not believe SIU is by itself hopefully things in the next two weeks things will improve and get back to winning also it is too early to jump ship and call this season over there are good days ahead
I haven’t watched the game and admittedly box scores can be deceiving, but I saw an awful lot of posts complaining about QB play when we rushed for 36 yards on 31 carries and the defense gave up almost 500 yards of offense. If Baker played poorly (and from reading the board it sounds like he did), this seems like a total team stink fest.
If we lose the last two games and miss the playoffs, where does that leave SIU football?
Out of the playoffs obviously, what does that have to do with singling out one part of a very poor team effort. I’m not saying he wasn’t part of the loss, but he certainly wasn’t the only culprit. If you can’t run the ball and are one dimensional, it sure makes it a hell of a lot easier on their defense to take away the passing game.
Again, I haven’t seen the game and I may change my mind after watching (just looked at the box score), but I imagine there was poor play from a lot of the team (including the coaches…play calling has been rough the past couple games).
I completely agree, it was not a game to hang your collective hat on except for the 8 sacks and some great kicking by Gualdoni. My question was more rhetorical, not one directed at your comment. I quoted you by accident.
The JW pass to Elliot was supposed to be a JW run. Then Hill tried to talk to him coming off the field. JW kept walking and ignored Hill. That’s a problem.
Teams are stacking the box and daring us to throw the ball. It’s a simple game. Stop the run and pressure Baker. We will be lucky to win another game. Defense is beat up.
@valleyfb The passing game isn't the problem. We have no run game. NONE. Our backs run into a brick wall up the middle. Our O-line isn't opening any holes and haven't most of the year. Before you know it we are 3rd and long and very predictable . JW used to catch teams by surprise with the wildcat. Now as soon as they spot him they load the box and he has no place to go. Part of the problem is play calling on offense. The defense is on the field to long and tires out. I'm beginning to wonder if we are a playoff caliber team.
@valleyfb The passing game isn't the problem. We have no run game. NONE. Our backs run into a brick wall up the middle. Our O-line isn't opening any holes and haven't most of the year. Before you know it we are 3rd and long and very predictable . JW used to catch teams by surprise with the wildcat. Now as soon as they spot him they load the box and he has no place to go. Part of the problem is play calling on offense. The defense is on the field to long and tires out. I'm beginning to wonder if we are a playoff caliber team.
Bad play calling and no run game, but in this game, passing was definitely a problem. At one point 9 for 23 (39% - Mike and Gene repeatedly said NB has no touch today). Baker had poor accuracy until late in the game when they were giving up the shorter stuff to prevent big plays. That game was not as close as the score indicates. 31 - 13 and then 38 - 20 with 6:47 to go - it was a rout, and the QB play was also bad.
I also don't see the kind of confidence and kickazz never-say-die attitude we had from the previous QB - that is just incredibly important to a team. Really, really disappointing this late in the season to see this team fall off.
@14_alumdawg is this a new problem or something else played quite a lot in previous seasons
I have no idea. That’s just what a bunch of students have said because they all hangout with the football players at the bars, parties, and the Rec center. I’m going to assume it’s a problem every year because people complained about him not playing enough last year too??? But no idea. Adds up though to why he might not be on the field every play and why they only directly hand it to him when he is in the game.
Gossip 3rd/4th hand - I don't believe it for a minute. JW comes in and has several unproductive plays because all the teams know what's coming and NH pulls him out. I haven't seen a single screwed up play from JW all season except maybe that pass attempt to Elliot. He's running what NH calls, which is usually a run right up the middle.
Rarely do we run a sweep or a pitch out. Up the middle or end around - those are our two running plays.
@valleyfb The passing game isn't the problem. We have no run game. NONE. Our backs run into a brick wall up the middle. Our O-line isn't opening any holes and haven't most of the year. Before you know it we are 3rd and long and very predictable . JW used to catch teams by surprise with the wildcat. Now as soon as they spot him they load the box and he has no place to go. Part of the problem is play calling on offense. The defense is on the field to long and tires out. I'm beginning to wonder if we are a playoff caliber team.
Bad play calling and no run game, but in this game, passing was definitely a problem. At one point 9 for 23 (39% - Mike and Gene repeatedly said NB has no touch today). Baker had poor accuracy until late in the game when they were giving up the shorter stuff to prevent big plays. That game was not as close as the score indicates. 31 - 13 and then 38 - 20 with 6:47 to go - it was a rout, and the QB play was also bad.
I also don't see the kind of confidence and kickazz never-say-die attitude we had from the previous QB - that is just incredibly important to a team. Really, really disappointing this late in the season to see this team fall off.
Yes!! It would be nice to see a little urgency from QB1. Lots of careless turnovers in several games. Defense did all they could last game. They finally ran out of gas. Both teams OLs struggled. Difference is their QB found ways to make plays in 3rd and 4th down situations when plays had to be made. There was heat on him all day. He kept heat off with huge runs and passes on the dime while escaping.
Why isn’t Norton or Zabrowski getting a shot when we struggle? QB room was a revolving door last year until SL solidified that spot. It’s basically going to be the same QB room next year with exception of Lindauer back from surgery.
So I finally sat down and watched the game. My long-winded takeaways (FWIW) are below.
First Half
Defense: Played well aside for that first drive. They got pressure on the QB and kept him mostly contained. Got a couple turnovers and quite a few sacks, but struggled to kill off the drives after the sacks. If you watch the drive where Mo St kicked their field goal, we had two sacks (maybe three) where we put them behind the chains, but they still converted on third and longs. Sacks that don't lead to the end of a drive are nothing more than stat stuffers.
Offense had some good drives, but that second quarter was rough. I thought for the most part Baker played well (go back a watch it yourself objectively and I think you'll agree). We missed on two deep balls to Avante that should have gone for TDs. The first one should have been PI, the D-back pulled Cox back as he was reaching to make the catch (throw may have been a shade overthrown, but he would have caught it if not for that tug). Second ball I thought was a good ball as well (although with the TV angle it was a bit tough to see). Cox didn't even put his hands out and immediately went to the sideline...thinking something with his shoulder b/c even if the ball was overthrown, it wasn't by much. Lenior had a drop on a slant that would have put us first and goal at the 3...ended up missing the FG so no points on that drive. Our run game has been non-existent and on these 3 and outs, we've gotten behind the chains every time. O-line is getting dominated on the run block and as a result we've been pretty one-dimensional. Javon looks like he's hobbling when he walks off the field (wonder if he tweaked something in practice)...his lack of use in the first half as a RB is glaring (not that he could get many yards with the O-line blocking like this). When you are 3rd and long it makes things pretty difficult as a QB and as a play caller. Baker missed a ball at the end of the half to Rollins that would have got them in position for a shot at the endzone, but they ended up with the FG anyway so likely no points lost there.
Special teams played really well aside from the 36 yard FG Nico missed (fumble recovery, 50 and 55 yard FGs and great punts).
Second Half
Defense: First drive, we have them pinned deep and we give up a third and long run for a 1st...end up getting a stop, but they flip the field. D has given up a lot of third and longs (Mo St 13-20 on 3rd down)...they have to own some of the Time of Possession discrepancy, do the hard work of getting to third down and can't close the deal. Mo St starting to adjust to take advantage of our blitzing, dumping to the RBs to the blitz side or running screens. D also not containing the QB so he's extending plays and getting the ball downfield to some wide open receivers (not sure how much is busted play vs actual routes). Also, it's amazing how much easier it is to move the ball when the run game gets going. Gave up a big run to go down 31-13...Qua took a terrible angle and got smoked on that play (D-back on that side of the field got blocked downfield almost to the 50...couldn't get off the block). Defense gives up a TD on 3rd and 17 on a WR screen to the blitz side...Bobby P. takes Jared P. to school. Feel like the D never adjusted in the second half once Mo St started to throw those little screens/dump passes to the blitz side.
Offense: First drive out of the half looked good until Lenoir dropped a ball on first down, Baker sacked (no time at all) leads to punt (no protection at all...on a four man rush). Ground game still struggling and Hill is still trying to establish it...putting the offense in 3rd and longs. Some of it is blocking, but have noticed the RBs making the wrong cuts too (obviously easier to see when you are watching it from this vantage point). Baker has been under duress most of this half and has missed a couple throws. Nice ball to Hartrup for a TD, then a stupid penalty...that cannot happen. Have momentum and then 4th and 1 RPO gets blown up...did the O-line block anyone on that play? Nice drive to make it 38-28, but too late at this point.
Special Teams: Uneventful second half, 1 shank punt, but other than that, pretty solid.
Overall Impression
I think it was a tale of two halves on defense. Gave up too many big plays (especially on 3rd down) and we were thoroughly out coached by the Petrino on the other side in the second half. When you allow 13-20 on third down conversions, you aren't going to win many games (especially disappointing b/c you got to third down a lot). The offense struggled, especially the O-Line. When you can't run the ball, it puts you in some pretty bad situations in terms of down and distance and play calls available. I think Hill stuck with it too long and got us behind the chains too much. Would have preferred to see more WR bubble screens and runs to the edge if he still wanted to keep them from pinning their ears back. I honestly didn't think Baker was as awful as some have said. He did miss some throws, but he also had some dropped balls, and their D line was in his face for most of the second half (with just the 4 down lineman to boot). I would genuinely like to have a conversation with any of the posters who thought he was awful, really send me a DM. I'd like to get your point of view, but be specific about plays/decisions in the game so we can talk through those not just generalities. I know that takes a bit of time and effort, but to me that is the only way to really evaluate how someone played. I tried to do that with my discussion above.
In the end, it was a bad loss, but we have two winnable games in front of us that could still get us a home playoff game in the first round...if we lose they can also knock us out of the playoffs which would be a very bitter pill to swallow. Here's hoping for the former.
TLDR: D good first half really bad second half. O struggled to run Baker, not as bad as some thought (not necessarily great either). Bad loss, need to win these next two to get confidence back and make the playoffs.
SIU falls to #15 in the Stats FCS poll https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/football/fcs/stats-perform-fcs-top-25
SIU falls to #15 in the Stats FCS poll https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/football/fcs/stats-perform-fcs-top-25
Those polls are nuts. Sac St #12 got whipped by UNI #20 at Sac St. Right now, we are not better than UNI. MOST or S. Dakota but we're ranked ahead of them. Just be glad we don't play the Coyotes!
So I finally sat down and watched the game. My long-winded takeaways (FWIW) are below.
First Half
Defense: Played well aside for that first drive. They got pressure on the QB and kept him mostly contained. Got a couple turnovers and quite a few sacks, but struggled to kill off the drives after the sacks. If you watch the drive where Mo St kicked their field goal, we had two sacks (maybe three) where we put them behind the chains, but they still converted on third and longs. Sacks that don't lead to the end of a drive are nothing more than stat stuffers.
Offense had some good drives, but that second quarter was rough. I thought for the most part Baker played well (go back a watch it yourself objectively and I think you'll agree). We missed on two deep balls to Avante that should have gone for TDs. The first one should have been PI, the D-back pulled Cox back as he was reaching to make the catch (throw may have been a shade overthrown, but he would have caught it if not for that tug). Second ball I thought was a good ball as well (although with the TV angle it was a bit tough to see). Cox didn't even put his hands out and immediately went to the sideline...thinking something with his shoulder b/c even if the ball was overthrown, it wasn't by much. Lenior had a drop on a slant that would have put us first and goal at the 3...ended up missing the FG so no points on that drive. Our run game has been non-existent and on these 3 and outs, we've gotten behind the chains every time. O-line is getting dominated on the run block and as a result we've been pretty one-dimensional. Javon looks like he's hobbling when he walks off the field (wonder if he tweaked something in practice)...his lack of use in the first half as a RB is glaring (not that he could get many yards with the O-line blocking like this). When you are 3rd and long it makes things pretty difficult as a QB and as a play caller. Baker missed a ball at the end of the half to Rollins that would have got them in position for a shot at the endzone, but they ended up with the FG anyway so likely no points lost there.
Special teams played really well aside from the 36 yard FG Nico missed (fumble recovery, 50 and 55 yard FGs and great punts).
Second Half
Defense: First drive, we have them pinned deep and we give up a third and long run for a 1st...end up getting a stop, but they flip the field. D has given up a lot of third and longs (Mo St 13-20 on 3rd down)...they have to own some of the Time of Possession discrepancy, do the hard work of getting to third down and can't close the deal. Mo St starting to adjust to take advantage of our blitzing, dumping to the RBs to the blitz side or running screens. D also not containing the QB so he's extending plays and getting the ball downfield to some wide open receivers (not sure how much is busted play vs actual routes). Also, it's amazing how much easier it is to move the ball when the run game gets going. Gave up a big run to go down 31-13...Qua took a terrible angle and got smoked on that play (D-back on that side of the field got blocked downfield almost to the 50...couldn't get off the block). Defense gives up a TD on 3rd and 17 on a WR screen to the blitz side...Bobby P. takes Jared P. to school. Feel like the D never adjusted in the second half once Mo St started to throw those little screens/dump passes to the blitz side.
Offense: First drive out of the half looked good until Lenoir dropped a ball on first down, Baker sacked (no time at all) leads to punt (no protection at all...on a four man rush). Ground game still struggling and Hill is still trying to establish it...putting the offense in 3rd and longs. Some of it is blocking, but have noticed the RBs making the wrong cuts too (obviously easier to see when you are watching it from this vantage point). Baker has been under duress most of this half and has missed a couple throws. Nice ball to Hartrup for a TD, then a stupid penalty...that cannot happen. Have momentum and then 4th and 1 RPO gets blown up...did the O-line block anyone on that play? Nice drive to make it 38-28, but too late at this point.
Special Teams: Uneventful second half, 1 shank punt, but other than that, pretty solid.
Overall Impression
I think it was a tale of two halves on defense. Gave up too many big plays (especially on 3rd down) and we were thoroughly out coached by the Petrino on the other side in the second half. When you allow 13-20 on third down conversions, you aren't going to win many games (especially disappointing b/c you got to third down a lot). The offense struggled, especially the O-Line. When you can't run the ball, it puts you in some pretty bad situations in terms of down and distance and play calls available. I think Hill stuck with it too long and got us behind the chains too much. Would have preferred to see more WR bubble screens and runs to the edge if he still wanted to keep them from pinning their ears back. I honestly didn't think Baker was as awful as some have said. He did miss some throws, but he also had some dropped balls, and their D line was in his face for most of the second half (with just the 4 down lineman to boot). I would genuinely like to have a conversation with any of the posters who thought he was awful, really send me a DM. I'd like to get your point of view, but be specific about plays/decisions in the game so we can talk through those not just generalities. I know that takes a bit of time and effort, but to me that is the only way to really evaluate how someone played. I tried to do that with my discussion above.
In the end, it was a bad loss, but we have two winnable games in front of us that could still get us a home playoff game in the first round...if we lose they can also knock us out of the playoffs which would be a very bitter pill to swallow. Here's hoping for the former.
TLDR: D good first half really bad second half. O struggled to run Baker, not as bad as some thought (not necessarily great either). Bad loss, need to win these next two to get confidence back and make the playoffs.
Guess we saw different games. Baker was 9 for 23 at one point and he missed a lot more passes than just a couple to AC. When the game was already decided and they basically dropped back into a sort of prevent D, his stats improved. I was really very unhappy with the downtrodden attitude late in the game!
I sure don't blame the D - they were on the field Way Too Long.
Bring on Norton or Z!
@mr_woogers We ran for a total of 36 yards on 31 carries. We passed for 262 yards. Baker was 21 of 38. Those poor running plays also made it that much harder for the passing game. Need more pass plays.
So I finally sat down and watched the game. My long-winded takeaways (FWIW) are below.
First Half
Defense: Played well aside for that first drive. They got pressure on the QB and kept him mostly contained. Got a couple turnovers and quite a few sacks, but struggled to kill off the drives after the sacks. If you watch the drive where Mo St kicked their field goal, we had two sacks (maybe three) where we put them behind the chains, but they still converted on third and longs. Sacks that don't lead to the end of a drive are nothing more than stat stuffers.
Offense had some good drives, but that second quarter was rough. I thought for the most part Baker played well (go back a watch it yourself objectively and I think you'll agree). We missed on two deep balls to Avante that should have gone for TDs. The first one should have been PI, the D-back pulled Cox back as he was reaching to make the catch (throw may have been a shade overthrown, but he would have caught it if not for that tug). Second ball I thought was a good ball as well (although with the TV angle it was a bit tough to see). Cox didn't even put his hands out and immediately went to the sideline...thinking something with his shoulder b/c even if the ball was overthrown, it wasn't by much. Lenior had a drop on a slant that would have put us first and goal at the 3...ended up missing the FG so no points on that drive. Our run game has been non-existent and on these 3 and outs, we've gotten behind the chains every time. O-line is getting dominated on the run block and as a result we've been pretty one-dimensional. Javon looks like he's hobbling when he walks off the field (wonder if he tweaked something in practice)...his lack of use in the first half as a RB is glaring (not that he could get many yards with the O-line blocking like this). When you are 3rd and long it makes things pretty difficult as a QB and as a play caller. Baker missed a ball at the end of the half to Rollins that would have got them in position for a shot at the endzone, but they ended up with the FG anyway so likely no points lost there.
Special teams played really well aside from the 36 yard FG Nico missed (fumble recovery, 50 and 55 yard FGs and great punts).
Second Half
Defense: First drive, we have them pinned deep and we give up a third and long run for a 1st...end up getting a stop, but they flip the field. D has given up a lot of third and longs (Mo St 13-20 on 3rd down)...they have to own some of the Time of Possession discrepancy, do the hard work of getting to third down and can't close the deal. Mo St starting to adjust to take advantage of our blitzing, dumping to the RBs to the blitz side or running screens. D also not containing the QB so he's extending plays and getting the ball downfield to some wide open receivers (not sure how much is busted play vs actual routes). Also, it's amazing how much easier it is to move the ball when the run game gets going. Gave up a big run to go down 31-13...Qua took a terrible angle and got smoked on that play (D-back on that side of the field got blocked downfield almost to the 50...couldn't get off the block). Defense gives up a TD on 3rd and 17 on a WR screen to the blitz side...Bobby P. takes Jared P. to school. Feel like the D never adjusted in the second half once Mo St started to throw those little screens/dump passes to the blitz side.
Offense: First drive out of the half looked good until Lenoir dropped a ball on first down, Baker sacked (no time at all) leads to punt (no protection at all...on a four man rush). Ground game still struggling and Hill is still trying to establish it...putting the offense in 3rd and longs. Some of it is blocking, but have noticed the RBs making the wrong cuts too (obviously easier to see when you are watching it from this vantage point). Baker has been under duress most of this half and has missed a couple throws. Nice ball to Hartrup for a TD, then a stupid penalty...that cannot happen. Have momentum and then 4th and 1 RPO gets blown up...did the O-line block anyone on that play? Nice drive to make it 38-28, but too late at this point.
Special Teams: Uneventful second half, 1 shank punt, but other than that, pretty solid.
Overall Impression
I think it was a tale of two halves on defense. Gave up too many big plays (especially on 3rd down) and we were thoroughly out coached by the Petrino on the other side in the second half. When you allow 13-20 on third down conversions, you aren't going to win many games (especially disappointing b/c you got to third down a lot). The offense struggled, especially the O-Line. When you can't run the ball, it puts you in some pretty bad situations in terms of down and distance and play calls available. I think Hill stuck with it too long and got us behind the chains too much. Would have preferred to see more WR bubble screens and runs to the edge if he still wanted to keep them from pinning their ears back. I honestly didn't think Baker was as awful as some have said. He did miss some throws, but he also had some dropped balls, and their D line was in his face for most of the second half (with just the 4 down lineman to boot). I would genuinely like to have a conversation with any of the posters who thought he was awful, really send me a DM. I'd like to get your point of view, but be specific about plays/decisions in the game so we can talk through those not just generalities. I know that takes a bit of time and effort, but to me that is the only way to really evaluate how someone played. I tried to do that with my discussion above.
In the end, it was a bad loss, but we have two winnable games in front of us that could still get us a home playoff game in the first round...if we lose they can also knock us out of the playoffs which would be a very bitter pill to swallow. Here's hoping for the former.
TLDR: D good first half really bad second half. O struggled to run Baker, not as bad as some thought (not necessarily great either). Bad loss, need to win these next two to get confidence back and make the playoffs.
Guess we saw different games. Baker was 9 for 23 at one point and he missed a lot more passes than just a couple to AC. When the game was already decided and they basically dropped back into a sort of prevent D, his stats improved. I was really very unhappy with the downtrodden attitude late in the game!
I sure don't blame the D - they were on the field Way Too Long.
Bring on Norton or Z!
Zero context per usual. I guess we did. How can you not put some of the 38 points and almost 500 yards on the defense or the 13-20 third down rate? That’s a joke.
I watched the game, and I was stone cold sober! I guess Mike and Gene saying multiple times during the game that Baker had no touch today was zero context? Baker padded stats after we were down 31 - 13. Before that, he was just off, as in 9 for 23 = 39%!!!!!
When a D stays on the field that long, they are going to give up points. MOST had the ball almost twice as long as we did! 10 sacks! The O sucked - that includes our QB.
D did all they could do considering #6 didn’t play , #10 got tossed very early, and #12 looked like he was playing on a fractured ankle after the 3rd play of the game. Defense and special teams gave us a chance to have a 2+ scores lead in the 3rd quarter. It was going to take that and then some to have a shot late. D was gassed and missing basically 3 LBs. D had zero time to recover between series because of so many 3 and outs. This one is squarely on the O.
