I saw in the Southern Illinoisan that Brad Colewell is leaving SIU. Another turd removed from the punch bowl. Congratulations on eliminating another problem from the Randy Dunn debacle.
When does the report come out on the much revered Glenn Poshard? The guy who sat on his rear and presided during a period of plummeting enrollment, exacerbated by the infamous "special admissions program", wherein certain individuals told the university to go to Chicago and sign up students with ACT scores as low as 11, "or else". Shockingly, crime on the campus and in the town skyrocketed, and equally shocking, parents no longer wanted to send their kids to SIU. That same perception of SIU exists to this day. Not one to rock the boat, good ole Glenn sat on his duff, watching the days roll by until he was eligible for yet another taxpayer funded pension. His sole mission at SIU was to make sure that not one single union job was cut, regardless of how low enrollment went. When will that report be written?
PS- if anyone cannot remember him, google "cut-and-paste Poshard", that's how he does dissertations. Garnered a lot of great publicity for the university.
You don't actually expect those portraying SIU as victims of e persecution to answer that do you?
“The hardest thing to explain is the glaringly evident which everybody has decided not to see.”
― Ayn Rand
When does the report come out on the much revered Glenn Poshard? The guy who sat on his rear and presided during a period of plummeting enrollment, exacerbated by the infamous "special admissions program", wherein certain individuals told the university to go to Chicago and sign up students with ACT scores as low as 11, "or else". Shockingly, crime on the campus and in the town skyrocketed, and equally shocking, parents no longer wanted to send their kids to SIU. That same perception of SIU exists to this day. Not one to rock the boat, good ole Glenn sat on his duff, watching the days roll by until he was eligible for yet another taxpayer funded pension. His sole mission at SIU was to make sure that not one single union job was cut, regardless of how low enrollment went. When will that report be written?
PS- if anyone cannot remember him, google "cut-and-paste Poshard", that's how he does dissertations. Garnered a lot of great publicity for the university.
I think you hit on a very important point: the perception of the university. I think SIU has made strides to bring in better administrators and leaders, but the toxicity left behind by Poshard/Cheng era will take a long time to erase. Unfortunately, I'm not sure how much the university can realistically do, given peoples' perception of the university. Most people are irrational, and perception equals reality, for better or worse. SIU can highlight the positives of the university all it wants, but people will still focus on the perceived negatives, regardless if it has any merit or not.
When does the report come out on the much revered Glenn Poshard? The guy who sat on his rear and presided during a period of plummeting enrollment, exacerbated by the infamous "special admissions program", wherein certain individuals told the university to go to Chicago and sign up students with ACT scores as low as 11, "or else". Shockingly, crime on the campus and in the town skyrocketed, and equally shocking, parents no longer wanted to send their kids to SIU. That same perception of SIU exists to this day. Not one to rock the boat, good ole Glenn sat on his duff, watching the days roll by until he was eligible for yet another taxpayer funded pension. His sole mission at SIU was to make sure that not one single union job was cut, regardless of how low enrollment went. When will that report be written?
PS- if anyone cannot remember him, google "cut-and-paste Poshard", that's how he does dissertations. Garnered a lot of great publicity for the university.
I think you hit on a very important point: the perception of the university. I think SIU has made strides to bring in better administrators and leaders, but the toxicity left behind by Poshard/Cheng era will take a long time to erase. Unfortunately, I'm not sure how much the university can realistically do, given peoples' perception of the university. Most people are irrational, and perception equals reality, for better or worse. SIU can highlight the positives of the university all it wants, but people will still focus on the perceived negatives, regardless if it has any merit or not.
Couldn't disagree more with that statement. Perceptions can absolutely be changed. Poshard is ancient history! Blaming enrollment decline on Poshard is ridiculous. I have no idea if the perception of SIU has any serious effect on enrollment - that is unproven speculation. I do know this is a national phenomenon and NIU, WIU, and EIU all have serious enrollment-decline issues - not caused by Poshard by the way. I also believe SIU has done and continues to do a very poor job of selling itself. The fact is a good sell job, done often enough and long enough, absolutely can affect perceptions. Most people are VERY prone to manipulation by the media and by others. Companies, governments, politicians, etc. around the world spend a lot of time and a lot of money trying to alter perceptions, preferences, beliefs, etc. Some are more effective than others, but they wouldn't be doing it if it didn't work.
The perception can definitely be changed with the appropriate marketing and presence in the various communities SIU recruits.
The situation with enrollment, while a problem for several universities in Illinois, has been perpetuated by years of neglect and incompetence by the leadership at SIU. Hopefully SIU is purging itself of all of the garbage that has dragged down the reputation and done nothing to improve recruiting over the past couple of decades.
The perception can definitely be changed with the appropriate marketing and presence in the various communities SIU recruits.
The situation with enrollment, while a problem for several universities in Illinois, has been perpetuated by years of neglect and incompetence by the leadership at SIU. Hopefully SIU is purging itself of all of the garbage that has dragged down the reputation and done nothing to improve recruiting over the past couple of decades.
The perception will fix itself if our standards improve and crime issues either go away or stop getting too much attention. SIU has been adding tons of payroll costs associated with PC stuff and failing to reduce staffing costs with reduced enrollment. If you're expensive and have a less than stellar reputation that spells trouble. It's funny how the payroll costs/student never seem to come up in discussions about what ails us.
It may be we need to shrink, improve (including costs), then expand to get back to some manner of relevance.
“The hardest thing to explain is the glaringly evident which everybody has decided not to see.”
― Ayn Rand
SIU has the 2nd highest public university tuition and fees, SIUE has one of the lowest:
https://www.collegetuitioncompare.com/compare/tables/?state=IL
(for some reason UIS was not on this list - $11583/year)
| School Name | Location | Type/Level | In-State Tuition | Out-of-State Tuition |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Chicago State University | Chicago, IL | Public, 4 or more years | $10,163 | $17,123 |
| Eastern Illinois University | Charleston, IL | Public, 4 or more years | $11,803 | $14,023 |
| Governors State University | University Park, IL | Public, 4 or more years | $12,196 | $21,586 |
| University of Illinois at Chicago | Chicago, IL | Public, 4 or more years | $13,764 | $26,980 |
| University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign | Champaign, IL | Public, 4 or more years | $15,094 | $31,664 |
| Illinois State University | Normal, IL | Public, 4 or more years | $14,516 | $26,040 |
| Northern Illinois University | Dekalb, IL | Public, 4 or more years | $14,299 | $14,617 |
| Northeastern Illinois University | Chicago, IL | Public, 4 or more years | $11,218 | $20,726 |
| Southern Illinois University-Carbondale | Carbondale, IL | Public, 4 or more years | $14,704 | $29,160 |
| Southern Illinois University-Edwardsville | Edwardsville, IL | Public, 4 or more years | $10,214 | $12,132 |
| Western Illinois University | Macomb, IL | Public, 4 or more years | $12,664 | $12,951 |
**If a school is not represented in table, the school does not have the program or not report data to IPEDS.
I sent my son to SIU. A good friend of mine sent his to Western Illinois. He consistently has always rubbed my nose in the cost disparity. As a matter of fact, he just bought a new car and had to come over to show it off. He claims he used the money he saved on tuition to pay for it. When you look at the numbers, it's hard to argue.
I'm not sayin' -- I'm just sayin'!
SIU has the 2nd highest public university tuition and fees, SIUE has one of the lowest:
https://www.collegetuitioncompare.com/compare/tables/?state=IL
(for some reason UIS was not on this list - $11583/year)
General Academic Information Comparison Table School Name Location Type/Level In-State Tuition Out-of-State Tuition Chicago State University Chicago, IL Public, 4 or more years $10,163 $17,123 Eastern Illinois University Charleston, IL Public, 4 or more years $11,803 $14,023 Governors State University University Park, IL Public, 4 or more years $12,196 $21,586 University of Illinois at Chicago Chicago, IL Public, 4 or more years $13,764 $26,980 University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign Champaign, IL Public, 4 or more years $15,094 $31,664 Illinois State University Normal, IL Public, 4 or more years $14,516 $26,040 Northern Illinois University Dekalb, IL Public, 4 or more years $14,299 $14,617 Northeastern Illinois University Chicago, IL Public, 4 or more years $11,218 $20,726 Southern Illinois University-Carbondale Carbondale, IL Public, 4 or more years $14,704 $29,160 Southern Illinois University-Edwardsville Edwardsville, IL Public, 4 or more years $10,214 $12,132 Western Illinois University Macomb, IL Public, 4 or more years $12,664 $12,951 *You may want to click the column title in order to sort table by the column.
**If a school is not represented in table, the school does not have the program or not report data to IPEDS.
Why the high cost? Is it because the payroll/student is higher? Are you saying we should reduce headcount to get in line with staff/student ratios from 1990?
“The hardest thing to explain is the glaringly evident which everybody has decided not to see.”
― Ayn Rand
Here is some insight from the Chicago Tribune. Staffing and retirement costs from years of bad decisions and poor prioritizing of resources. There is no coming back from this. The author makes an interesting point about the state system favoring the rich and poor with middle class forced to look elsewhere (typical IL politics).
“The hardest thing to explain is the glaringly evident which everybody has decided not to see.”
― Ayn Rand
No reason SIUC should be that high, or any higher than Edwardsville. I read somewhere that admin. costs at Illinois public universities increased by 93% between '02 and 1018, while total enrolled stayed about the same - don't have the link. (U of I grew I believe.)
Administrative costs, lack of state support, retirement costs, competition from nearby states with cheaper tuition, etc. In the 70s, Ill. state gov't provided 60 - 70% of the support for public universities. Now I believe it's much smaller.
No reason SIUC should be that high, or any higher than Edwardsville. I read somewhere that admin. costs at Illinois public universities increased by 93% between '02 and 1018, while total enrolled stayed about the same - don't have the link. (U of I grew I believe.)
Administrative costs, lack of state support, retirement costs, competition from nearby states with cheaper tuition, etc. In the 70s, Ill. state gov't provided 60 - 70% of the support for public universities. Now I believe it's much smaller.
From what you posted e tuition is half ours and they've got enough money that Dunn and the other stole some to give to Carbondale. Something is very very fishy here.
“The hardest thing to explain is the glaringly evident which everybody has decided not to see.”
― Ayn Rand
No reason SIUC should be that high, or any higher than Edwardsville. I read somewhere that admin. costs at Illinois public universities increased by 93% between '02 and 1018, while total enrolled stayed about the same - don't have the link. (U of I grew I believe.)
Administrative costs, lack of state support, retirement costs, competition from nearby states with cheaper tuition, etc. In the 70s, Ill. state gov't provided 60 - 70% of the support for public universities. Now I believe it's much smaller.
From what you posted e tuition is half ours and they've got enough money that Dunn and the other stole some to give to Carbondale. Something is very very fishy here.
Not sure that was an accurate number. Other sources say their tuition is $12,100, which is probably more accurate. That makes it $600 less per year.
If you're referring to the $20 million C borrowed from E a few years ago, that was paid back to E the minute Rauner was overridden and SIU starting receiving state support again. If you're referring to re-balancing budgets, that will happen - a consulting firm is trying to figure out the numbers. SIU has stolen nothing from Edwardsville.
When does the report come out on the much revered Glenn Poshard? The guy who sat on his rear and presided during a period of plummeting enrollment, exacerbated by the infamous "special admissions program", wherein certain individuals told the university to go to Chicago and sign up students with ACT scores as low as 11, "or else". Shockingly, crime on the campus and in the town skyrocketed, and equally shocking, parents no longer wanted to send their kids to SIU. That same perception of SIU exists to this day. Not one to rock the boat, good ole Glenn sat on his duff, watching the days roll by until he was eligible for yet another taxpayer funded pension. His sole mission at SIU was to make sure that not one single union job was cut, regardless of how low enrollment went. When will that report be written?
PS- if anyone cannot remember him, google "cut-and-paste Poshard", that's how he does dissertations. Garnered a lot of great publicity for the university.
I think you hit on a very important point: the perception of the university. I think SIU has made strides to bring in better administrators and leaders, but the toxicity left behind by Poshard/Cheng era will take a long time to erase. Unfortunately, I'm not sure how much the university can realistically do, given peoples' perception of the university. Most people are irrational, and perception equals reality, for better or worse. SIU can highlight the positives of the university all it wants, but people will still focus on the perceived negatives, regardless if it has any merit or not.
Couldn't disagree more with that statement. Perceptions can absolutely be changed. Poshard is ancient history! Blaming enrollment decline on Poshard is ridiculous. I have no idea if the perception of SIU has any serious effect on enrollment - that is unproven speculation. I do know this is a national phenomenon and NIU, WIU, and EIU all have serious enrollment-decline issues - not caused by Poshard by the way. I also believe SIU has done and continues to do a very poor job of selling itself. The fact is a good sell job, done often enough and long enough, absolutely can affect perceptions. Most people are VERY prone to manipulation by the media and by others. Companies, governments, politicians, etc. around the world spend a lot of time and a lot of money trying to alter perceptions, preferences, beliefs, etc. Some are more effective than others, but they wouldn't be doing it if it didn't work.
I didn't say it couldn't be changed, just that the negative perception the university has will be a difficult challenge to overcome. I completely agree with you that the university does not do a very good job selling itself, and that's something that has to change. Now that Dunn is gone and recruiting funds are not being withheld, hopefully it provides the window needed for the university to change its marketing strategy.
The perception can definitely be changed with the appropriate marketing and presence in the various communities SIU recruits.
The situation with enrollment, while a problem for several universities in Illinois, has been perpetuated by years of neglect and incompetence by the leadership at SIU. Hopefully SIU is purging itself of all of the garbage that has dragged down the reputation and done nothing to improve recruiting over the past couple of decades.
The perception will fix itself if our standards improve and crime issues either go away or stop getting too much attention. SIU has been adding tons of payroll costs associated with PC stuff and failing to reduce staffing costs with reduced enrollment. If you're expensive and have a less than stellar reputation that spells trouble. It's funny how the payroll costs/student never seem to come up in discussions about what ails us.
It may be we need to shrink, improve (including costs), then expand to get back to some manner of relevance.
The university has been improving its standards, but perceptions take a long time to get rid of. You still have to convince folks to leave their safe spaces and visit the university. That is a challenge unto itself. I think, as you and others have pointed out, finding ways to lower tuition for students will greatly help enrollment, while also maintaining the existing programs on campus designed to improve student retention.
