@beadmedaddio I hate these excuses. We got Bruce to come here after Purdue and he was facing three straight losing seasons entering here. I’m sick of this loser talk. We’ve never had a stretch like this. SIU hasn’t gone 14 years without postseason play since the inception of the NIT in 1938. Never. It’s never happened. That’s what we’re facing. 14 years without postseason play.
Guys have come here and won for years. Guys came here during dark times and turned it around. It’s already Year 3. There HAS TO be some growth. HAS TO. There’s plenty of qualified coaches who would take this job. I’m not at that point yet, but wins and improvement need to show up by next year. I’m not waiting another 3-5 years. It’s been 14 years.And cut the crap of ‘well, SIU is different now, and budgets and so and so’. Rich Herrin was facing conversations of this team moving to D-II. He faced it and turned the team around and made it better EACH YEAR until he got to the tournament.
I’m not here for loser talk. This is a winning program and the goal should always be to win.
Sorry, I just hate everybody suddenly accepting mediocrity these days.
Don't forget also that for 14 straight years, we haven't even seen SIU make it TO the MVC tourney final, let alone win the auto-bid. That's also the longest stretch in team history.
14 straight years of watching this team come up well short in St. Louis - not even one single, stinking, magical run of "hey, we're one win away from the Dance!"... and it'll very likely be 15 straight after this season's done.
Here's the list of teams that have made it to the MVC final since SIU was last in one way back in 2007:
Illinois State - 6 appearances
UNI - 5
Wichita State - 4
Loyola - 2
Indiana State - 2
Drake - 2
Creighton - 2
Bradley - 2
Evansville - 1
Missouri State - 1
Valparaiso - 1So yep, every other current Valley school (along with two schools that have moved on) have been to the MVC final since SIU was last there, with eight of those schools having multiple appearances.
Geez, can't we have just ONE decent run in St. Louis?!??!
I've had one foot out the door during those Illinois State games on Saturday including the OT one in 2018. If SIU is ever playing on Championship Sunday again, I'll be there. Hell, I'd love to go to the entire weekend.
@beadmedaddio I hate these excuses. We got Bruce to come here after Purdue and he was facing three straight losing seasons entering here. I’m sick of this loser talk. We’ve never had a stretch like this. SIU hasn’t gone 14 years without postseason play since the inception of the NIT in 1938. Never. It’s never happened. That’s what we’re facing. 14 years without postseason play.
Guys have come here and won for years. Guys came here during dark times and turned it around. It’s already Year 3. There HAS TO be some growth. HAS TO. There’s plenty of qualified coaches who would take this job. I’m not at that point yet, but wins and improvement need to show up by next year. I’m not waiting another 3-5 years. It’s been 14 years.And cut the crap of ‘well, SIU is different now, and budgets and so and so’. Rich Herrin was facing conversations of this team moving to D-II. He faced it and turned the team around and made it better EACH YEAR until he got to the tournament.
I’m not here for loser talk. This is a winning program and the goal should always be to win.
Sorry, I just hate everybody suddenly accepting mediocrity these days.
Rich Herrin had won 900 high school games before he came here! Weber had coached under Gene Keady for 19 years.
Those guys were very experienced coaches.
I'm disappointed we're not winning - it's was really destructive to keep Barbecue as long as we did just as it was really destructive to football to keep Dale Lennon as long as we did (should have fired him after a few years and he could have gone back to singing with the Lennon Sisters on Lawrence Welk.)
Those were both tough situations to walk into after years of so-so.
Nick Hill is getting better - I still question his judgement sometimes - but he absolutely needs to have a offensive play caller. He has definitely improved the team.
I have said here before that BM is a young coach and has a lot to learn. Definitely needs some coaching staff changes - gotta have an offensive guru, but I think we will be much better next year. If Lance and Domask stick around year after, that could be a dynamite team.
We heard that last year. And, unfortunately, my concern is that we'll hear that we need to be patient next year too. What is going to be different next year? If it's solely that other teams will be losing their 25 year old 5th year seniors, I get it. But if it's something else, I don't. 2 guys who weren't good enough to play this year aren't all of a sudden going to change things. A 120lb 7' freshmen center isn't going to change things. This team needs more athleticism and more size. I stand by my opinion that Mullins staff has struggled to recruit to this point. Hopefully that changes because until then, we'll be stuck in mediocrity (at best).
I don’t think they’ve struggled to land players they want, I think they need to diversify the recruiting profile. I saw a post I agree with we have too many similar guys. Seem a little overmatched with size and athleticism.
Also, where does our lack of athleticism show up? I really don’t even know. I feel like other teams appear more athletic but it’s not like they’re finishing over the top of us, or we can’t stay in front of them on defense. The more I think about it, the more I think all the top teams have that one guy who can make shots over players and we don’t have that. The fact is we probably need to get lucky and find an AJ Green or Isaiah Mosley or Cameron Krutwig… but these guys don’t grow on trees. Those top end players separate those top teams. Who is going to be ours?
Also, where does our lack of athleticism show up? I really don’t even know. I feel like other teams appear more athletic but it’s not like they’re finishing over the top of us, or we can’t stay in front of them on defense. The more I think about it, the more I think all the top teams have that one guy who can make shots over players and we don’t have that. The fact is we probably need to get lucky and find an AJ Green or Isaiah Mosley or Cameron Krutwig… but these guys don’t grow on trees. Those top end players separate those top teams. Who is going to be ours?
My take on where the inadequate length and athleticism shows up:
- Shortage of players who attack/can create their own shot. That's probably the biggest reason Southern has so many possessions that get deep in the shot clock, with multiple players hesitating to attack the rim. Example: Brown pranced into the lane last night and I don't think he even looked at the rim. Even when Southern was falling well behind in the second half last night, they continue to run 20-plus seconds off the clock with regularity.
- Not enough turning defense into offense. Southern is a good defensive team and plays hard but doesn't have the athletes to create havoc/strike in transition regularly like teams like Drake, Missouri State, etc.
- Few offensive rebounds/put-back baskets. Southern has been one of the worst in this category in recent years. Could really, really use a Marcus Timmons/Randal Falker ... hell, at this point, I'd settle for a LaMar Owen.
- Few blocked shots/lack of intimidating interior defense. See above.
But yes, as you and others have mentioned, landing/developing a POY candidate would help solve some of the other problems.
@beadmedaddio I hate these excuses. We got Bruce to come here after Purdue and he was facing three straight losing seasons entering here. I’m sick of this loser talk. We’ve never had a stretch like this. SIU hasn’t gone 14 years without postseason play since the inception of the NIT in 1938. Never. It’s never happened. That’s what we’re facing. 14 years without postseason play.
Guys have come here and won for years. Guys came here during dark times and turned it around. It’s already Year 3. There HAS TO be some growth. HAS TO. There’s plenty of qualified coaches who would take this job. I’m not at that point yet, but wins and improvement need to show up by next year. I’m not waiting another 3-5 years. It’s been 14 years.And cut the crap of ‘well, SIU is different now, and budgets and so and so’. Rich Herrin was facing conversations of this team moving to D-II. He faced it and turned the team around and made it better EACH YEAR until he got to the tournament.
I’m not here for loser talk. This is a winning program and the goal should always be to win.
Sorry, I just hate everybody suddenly accepting mediocrity these days.
Don't forget also that for 14 straight years, we haven't even seen SIU make it TO the MVC tourney final, let alone win the auto-bid. That's also the longest stretch in team history.
14 straight years of watching this team come up well short in St. Louis - not even one single, stinking, magical run of "hey, we're one win away from the Dance!"... and it'll very likely be 15 straight after this season's done.
Here's the list of teams that have made it to the MVC final since SIU was last in one way back in 2007:
Illinois State - 6 appearances
UNI - 5
Wichita State - 4
Loyola - 2
Indiana State - 2
Drake - 2
Creighton - 2
Bradley - 2
Evansville - 1
Missouri State - 1
Valparaiso - 1So yep, every other current Valley school (along with two schools that have moved on) have been to the MVC final since SIU was last there, with eight of those schools having multiple appearances.
Geez, can't we have just ONE decent run in St. Louis?!??!
I've had one foot out the door during those Illinois State games on Saturday including the OT one in 2018. If SIU is ever playing on Championship Sunday again, I'll be there. Hell, I'd love to go to the entire weekend.
Need to get you to St. Louis soon and with regularity. You spend way too much time on this board and following this team not to enjoy Arch Madness. 😀
Also, where does our lack of athleticism show up? I really don’t even know. I feel like other teams appear more athletic but it’s not like they’re finishing over the top of us, or we can’t stay in front of them on defense. The more I think about it, the more I think all the top teams have that one guy who can make shots over players and we don’t have that. The fact is we probably need to get lucky and find an AJ Green or Isaiah Mosley or Cameron Krutwig… but these guys don’t grow on trees. Those top end players separate those top teams. Who is going to be ours?
My take on where the inadequate length and athleticism shows up:
- Shortage of players who attack/can create their own shot. That's probably the biggest reason Southern has so many possessions that get deep in the shot clock, with multiple players hesitating to attack the rim. Example: Brown pranced into the lane last night and I don't think he even looked at the rim. Even when Southern was falling well behind in the second half last night, they continue to run 20-plus seconds off the clock with regularity.
- Not enough turning defense into offense. Southern is a good defensive team and plays hard but doesn't have the athletes to create havoc/strike in transition regularly like teams like Drake, Missouri State, etc.
- Few offensive rebounds/put-back baskets. Southern has been one of the worst in this category in recent years. Could really, really use a Marcus Timmons/Randal Falker ... hell, at this point, I'd settle for a LaMar Owen.
- Few blocked shots/lack of intimidating interior defense. See above.
But yes, as you and others have mentioned, landing/developing a POY candidate would help solve some of the other problems.
Here is my biggest issue with the late shot clock thing… give the ball to Lance, Coupet or Domask… let Coupet or Domask do whatever they do to get a shot… Marcus for the love of God, if a smaller player is on you post up, fine… when they put size on you go back to that jab step or cross over mid range game you looked so competent at as a freshman. He tries to get way too deep on guys bigger than him.
Also, where does our lack of athleticism show up? I really don’t even know. I feel like other teams appear more athletic but it’s not like they’re finishing over the top of us, or we can’t stay in front of them on defense. The more I think about it, the more I think all the top teams have that one guy who can make shots over players and we don’t have that. The fact is we probably need to get lucky and find an AJ Green or Isaiah Mosley or Cameron Krutwig… but these guys don’t grow on trees. Those top end players separate those top teams. Who is going to be ours?
My take on where the inadequate length and athleticism shows up:
- Shortage of players who attack/can create their own shot. That's probably the biggest reason Southern has so many possessions that get deep in the shot clock, with multiple players hesitating to attack the rim. Example: Brown pranced into the lane last night and I don't think he even looked at the rim. Even when Southern was falling well behind in the second half last night, they continue to run 20-plus seconds off the clock with regularity.
- Not enough turning defense into offense. Southern is a good defensive team and plays hard but doesn't have the athletes to create havoc/strike in transition regularly like teams like Drake, Missouri State, etc.
- Few offensive rebounds/put-back baskets. Southern has been one of the worst in this category in recent years. Could really, really use a Marcus Timmons/Randal Falker ... hell, at this point, I'd settle for a LaMar Owen.
- Few blocked shots/lack of intimidating interior defense. See above.
But yes, as you and others have mentioned, landing/developing a POY candidate would help solve some of the other problems.
Here is my biggest issue with the late shot clock thing… give the ball to Lance, Coupet or Domask… let Coupet or Domask do whatever they do to get a shot… Marcus for the love of God, if a smaller player is on you post up, fine… when they put size on you go back to that jab step or cross over mid range game you looked so competent at as a freshman. He tries to get way too deep on guys bigger than him.
I think that's a good point on Domask. With Coupet, for a guy who I believe is in his 6th year in a D-I program, you'd hope the weight room would have paid off a little more. He gets bumped off balance so often and many of his drives turn into a very tough finish from weird angles. As for Jones ... I don't know where to start. Just not seeing enough consistency in his game for it being February of his junior season, and I don't think it can all be chalked up to his foot challenges.
Who here on the board was actually at the game last night. I know the weather was bad last night, but on tv it looked like maybe 1000.
I watched some of the UNI-Bradley game last night before our game and the crowd was was not good in Cedar Falls. The paper had 2,600 but I was guessing 2,000 or less. They had cold weather but no snow or ice.
There’s just not enough here outside of Domask and Jones. Domask is a great player and can be the best player on a Tournament team but I don’t think he’s a guy that can carry you himself, there has to be more pieces beside him.
Once you get past Domask and Jones, who have been inconsistent on their own this season likely due to injuries and defenses swarming them, you don’t know what you’re getting from the other 6 or so rotational pieces. Some games Coupet will step up, others Verplancken, most nights you’ll get nothing out of any of them. That’s probably the biggest problem with this team.
Who here on the board was actually at the game last night. I know the weather was bad last night, but on tv it looked like maybe 1000.
I watched some of the UNI-Bradley game last night before our game and the crowd was was not good in Cedar Falls. The paper had 2,600 but I was guessing 2,000 or less. They had cold weather but no snow or ice.
I believe SIU still leads the league in home attendance.
People shitting on the offensive sets, but we had a ton of open looks…I mean a TON. We just missed a really high percentage of those open looks. We shot the ball 12 more times than they did and only turned it over 7 times. The rebounding numbers were skewed by the shear number of bricks we threw up. Last night wasn’t about the offensive scheme it was about the players not making shots.
Don’t get me wrong, there are times we struggle to get open looks against good defensive teams and I think some tweaks need to be made, but we are in a shooting funk and unfortunately it is as a team not one or two individual players. Lance and Marcus missed 6 or 7 wide open threes combined. Verplanken missed both his threes both wide open and Brown only made 1 of his 4 (2 misses were open looks). Not sure what is going on, tired legs, mental block, whatever but those guys make the majority of those shots when they are playing well.
I thought the defense struggled in the second half too (maybe letting offense dictate defense unfortunately), so that combined with a poor shooting night equals blowout.
People shitting on the offensive sets, but we had a ton of open looks…I mean a TON. We just missed a really high percentage of those open looks. We shot the ball 12 more times than they did and only turned it over 7 times. The rebounding numbers were skewed by the shear number of bricks we threw up. Last night wasn’t about the offensive scheme it was about the players not making shots.
Don’t get me wrong, there are times we struggle to get open looks against good defensive teams and I think some tweaks need to be made, but we are in a shooting funk and unfortunately it is as a team not one or two individual players. Lance and Marcus missed 6 or 7 wide open threes combined. Verplanken missed both his threes both wide open and Brown only made 1 of his 4 (2 misses were open looks). Not sure what is going on, tired legs, mental block, whatever but those guys make the majority of those shots when they are playing well.
I thought the defense struggled in the second half too (maybe letting offense dictate defense unfortunately), so that combined with a poor shooting night equals blowout.
Agreed. Players need to do their part. It’s all about avoiding Thursday now. Gotta stay locked in. Hopefully they don’t fold, I doubt they will.
@saluki-4-life I been saying this same thing. He apparently has been told to back his opponent done for a shot or if that fails to shoot the fade away. Where has the mid range game gone ( basically for the whole team)
I don’t think he was a huge impact guy last year but I’m confused by the development or lack thereof of Anthony D’Avanzo this season. Is his ankle injury still bothering him and that completely shot his season? He was an extremely usable player last year and was our best player down the stretch, especially in the Loyola games but now he’s barely getting minutes if he’s even playing at all.
