So ?
again if they are not getting an at large it is nothing more than a money drain. They will Add UIC and hold off adding anybody else unless somebody else leaves
The ONLY reason to add UIC is Chicago - they need to pledge to up their game because they're just awful and don't seem to mind staying that way. They have a decent baseball program.
I'd much rather have Murray than Evansville. They can bring some good pub to the MVC by beating teams like Memphis. And they would be a great rivalry with us - somebody to hate besides the Redturds and the Gargoyles!
So ?
again if they are not getting an at large it is nothing more than a money drain. They will Add UIC and hold off adding anybody else unless somebody else leaves
The ONLY reason to add UIC is Chicago - they need to pledge to up their game because they're just awful and don't seem to mind staying that way. They have a decent baseball program.
I'd much rather have Murray than Evansville. They can bring some good pub to the MVC by beating teams like Memphis. And they would be a great rivalry with us - somebody to hate besides the Redturds and the Gargoyles!
Word over here to your west is that our president and the expansion chair/president at MoSU have struck a deal.
That leaves even less room 4 Murray cause the MVC will stay in Chicago 4 sure. I know our basketball history is pretty bad but we are much better positioned for exposure and long term success than some Ky hole in the wall. LUC was a joke when you took them in. MVC could have taken Murray with Valpo but didn't. Could have taken them with Belmont but didn't.
Comparing a schedule strength at one point in one season is a pretty silly way to make a case for to admit Racers. Why has Horizon or Summit not jumped at them? Market, academics, endowment, location, alums. Same reasons MVC has passed at least twice now. I can promise you that not one conference president has a strength of schedule chart for men's basketball in their desk.
I hope the rumors are true even though you don't want us. I promise you a MUCH better road trip destination in Kansas City than Murray, Ky. With the commits we have made to the MVC in terms of facility plans, financial commitments and such, the potential upside here is so much bigger than any limited upside in Ky. I think your conference sees that very well in their most recent invites. Chicago, NW Indiana, Nashville. Even before that there was larger cities like Springfield.
Even if our president doesn't have a gentleman's agreement with the chair and we get passed by, expanding in to a town of less than 17,000 is insane. You don't see the A10 doing it, you don't see the MWC doing it, you don't see any conference that the MVC hopes to compete with doing it. It's a losing proposition for you especially. Why would you want someone in your backyard that you would compete with for money, attention and students? Silly.
If it's between UMKC and Nebraska-Omaha, then I'd take UMKC easily. They battle with Kansas and Kansas State but they're the only show in town in Kansas City. Nebraska-Omaha plays a distant second-fiddle in their own city to Creighton and then to Nebraska. Obviously depends on a pledge to up the basketball budget and to upgrade the facilities.
Give up on Murray. Unless they find a home for football it is not happening. I am becoming more convinced it will be UIC and that’s it for now.
my god man please kill this thread. it's getting really focking old listening to saluki fans tell us how much better murray is than SIU.
pathetic. absolutely pathetic.
go promote them somewhere else. this is not a damn racers forum.
two prominent posters here are actively running down SIU to prop up another college. pathetic.
shut it down@barkeep-1967
Give up on Murray. Unless they find a home for football it is not happening. I am becoming more convinced it will be UIC and that’s it for now.
my god man please kill this thread. it's getting really focking old listening to saluki fans tell us how much better murray is than SIU.
pathetic. absolutely pathetic.
go promote them somewhere else. this is not a damn racers forum.
two prominent posters here are actively running down SIU to prop up another college. pathetic.
shut it down@barkeep-1967
Or people want to see the Missouri Valley thrive and not turn into the Ohio Valley. Adding UT Arlington, UIC, UMKC, and Nebraska-Omaha strictly because they're in big markets has a huge chance of failing and ruining the Missouri Valley for years to come. Murray State is a named brand for mid-majors and has a passionate fanbase that will travel to Arch Madness and help attendance there.
Murray State would be a great addition to the Valley and will create an interesting rivalry with SIU. Outside of market size (even though Murray is a similar size to Carbondale), I haven't heard a decent reason why people should be against Murray State. Seems like most of it bitterness.
Give up on Murray. Unless they find a home for football it is not happening. I am becoming more convinced it will be UIC and that’s it for now.
my god man please kill this thread. it's getting really focking old listening to saluki fans tell us how much better murray is than SIU.
pathetic. absolutely pathetic.
go promote them somewhere else. this is not a damn racers forum.
two prominent posters here are actively running down SIU to prop up another college. pathetic.
shut it down@barkeep-1967
And let it be, let it be, let it be, let it be
Whisper words of wisdom, let it be
The advancement and diffusion of knowledge is the only guardian of true liberty.
James Madison
Let's go with a hypothetical that hits a little closer to home. Let's say SIU has a great season next year in Domask and Jones' senior years. A bubble-type resume. What's going to help Southern's cause more, a win or two over likely top-100 Murray or the other 250-300 range NET teams that are being considered?
I don't know about ya'll, but I'd like to see SIU back in the NCAA Tournament before I croak. Not saying Murray's addition would be a central reason that would happen, but it could help more than it could hurt, and I can't say the same about the other underwhelming, often gag-worthy, market-focused options.
Give up on Murray. Unless they find a home for football it is not happening. I am becoming more convinced it will be UIC and that’s it for now.
but, but, but murrey college beat memphis! 😆
I’d kill to be Murray State. SIU hasn’t won anything in 13 years going on 14 now.
sorry but I set my sights a little higher in life but thats your right. the missouri valley has no responsibility to throw life to one of the last rats off a sinking ovc ship. no one else wants them so they don't seem to be as valuable as some of you think.
Murray State's flaw is their market size and football program. I think most mid-majors in the market for a public school would take Murray State for their basketball program. SIU is lucky they're a long-time member of the Missouri Valley because there's no way they'd be added in 2021 with the combination of their market size, declining enrollment, and sub-par basketball the last decade.
Lets switch roles for a minute. Put SIU in the OVC and Murray in the MVC. SIU most likely would have dominated the OVC just like Murray has (until Belmont joined). Murray would have just been another team in this conference. Instead of a good team going 25-4, they'd go 18-11, and be known as a decent team. Their fans wouldn't be near as excited as they are now. There are plenty of MVC schools that would have dominated the low major conference if they were in that position just like Murray has.
I'd still like Murray added myself. But this "national brand" they claim to have is way overblown. They still don't have a single Sweet 16, despite 17 chances I believe. I know seeding matters, but 17 chances...That's a big number.
My real question is why not look at Northern Ky before UMKC? Cincy market a great arena and pretty decent success since they moved to D1....that makes more sense to me than UMKC or UTA...The Murray question is an interesting one. Yes, their bball program has been successful and what is essentially a low major conference. Joining the Valley would probably help them like it did Loyola, but does it help the Valley in the same way. Tiny market, alumni base is small, etc etc. If they don't bump up a notch after joining then they're just another team. However, UMKC at this point or UTA make no sense in my opinion. Terrible bball programs in genera. No point going any further. Great road trips though if you travel.
UIC makes sense to me in this regard. Chicago. Arena size, They do have some name recognition, Quality academic school and what appears to be a good new coach. After that....not sure what the Valley can do. Schools like Loyola and St Louis would make the Valley stronger but one just bolted and the other sees themselves as a future Big East member and a Harvard of the midwest.
Not sure what will happen, but UIC is the only one Id say take, mainly because of the market which we are already in and we have a ton of Alums in the area, and that's important. Guessing we will know soon.
My best case scenario for the MVC's future as a basketball-first league is to bump to 12 and take UIC and Murray. Having the additional two teams will help ease the scheduling burden and adding those two gives you the best of both worlds; retaining the Chicago market and adding a quality basketball program.
I'm not entirely opposed to the idea of 14, but extreme caution should be used. If going strictly the big market route, the Valley risks majorly watering down. Outside of market size long odds potential, I don't see quality basketball programs at this time that would make sense or be interested in joining.
--Insert something witty here--
Word over here to your west is that our president and the expansion chair/president at MoSU have struck a deal.
That leaves even less room 4 Murray cause the MVC will stay in Chicago 4 sure. I know our basketball history is pretty bad but we are much better positioned for exposure and long term success than some Ky hole in the wall. LUC was a joke when you took them in. MVC could have taken Murray with Valpo but didn't. Could have taken them with Belmont but didn't.
Comparing a schedule strength at one point in one season is a pretty silly way to make a case for to admit Racers. Why has Horizon or Summit not jumped at them? Market, academics, endowment, location, alums. Same reasons MVC has passed at least twice now. I can promise you that not one conference president has a strength of schedule chart for men's basketball in their desk.
I hope the rumors are true even though you don't want us. I promise you a MUCH better road trip destination in Kansas City than Murray, Ky. With the commits we have made to the MVC in terms of facility plans, financial commitments and such, the potential upside here is so much bigger than any limited upside in Ky. I think your conference sees that very well in their most recent invites. Chicago, NW Indiana, Nashville. Even before that there was larger cities like Springfield.
Even if our president doesn't have a gentleman's agreement with the chair and we get passed by, expanding in to a town of less than 17,000 is insane. You don't see the A10 doing it, you don't see the MWC doing it, you don't see any conference that the MVC hopes to compete with doing it. It's a losing proposition for you especially. Why would you want someone in your backyard that you would compete with for money, attention and students? Silly.
I sure hope you're wrong. Would hate to see basketball programs like UMKC and UTA in the MVC. Someone posted a blog by a sportswriter who was absolutely correct that the lousy basketball programs at UMKC and UTA would be a financial drag on the MVC, whereas Murray would add a ton of fans and excitement to Arch Madness and UIC would get some Chi-town market.
I only posted the strength of schedule because Boobys was ripping Murray for playing a wimp while ignoring that we have scheduled numerous wimps this year. Fact is, Murray is a strong mid-major basketball program with a very good fan following. It certainly isn't in a big market but is that all expansion is about? I thought it was about quality athletics. And why would Murray want to go to wimpy, non-football leagues like Horizon and Summit? I seriously doubt they ever applied for those limited conferences. The OVC competes in a lot of different sports and has a long history, not to mention some success in the NCAA tournament. But Barkeep's probably right. Murray wants to be in the MVFC football league and that may not happen. Western and Indiana State own the cellar in that league and want to keep winning the race to the bottom. LOL
Give up on Murray. Unless they find a home for football it is not happening. I am becoming more convinced it will be UIC and that’s it for now.
my god man please kill this thread. it's getting really focking old listening to saluki fans tell us how much better murray is than SIU.
pathetic. absolutely pathetic.
go promote them somewhere else. this is not a damn racers forum.
two prominent posters here are actively running down SIU to prop up another college. pathetic.
shut it down@barkeep-1967
Hey Dude. I'm not running down SIU. Bet you a large amount of money that I'm a bigger fan than you'll ever be and I prove it. My family has a long, long history with SIU, back to when it still had Normal in the name. I'm just stating facts to counteract your hyper-emotional remarks about Murray. We haven't been very good in basketball in a long time. I'm overjoyed that BM is our coach, and I think he'll get the job done eventually, but I'm not going to stick my head in the sand and say we have a basketball program right now comparable to Murray.
I am not a Murray State fan, but I think their bball program would add something to the MVC. It's as simple as that. If you didn't love watching Ja Morant play, you're not a basketball fan!
I'll be very upset if the MVC does something dumb like add UTA and UMKC. We won't be any better than the Horizon League. Someone mentioned Northern Kentucky. I'd take them before UMKC.
And if UIC is interested and I'm not sure they are, they need to pledge some investment in basketball like Loyola did before we admit them. They already stole the best volley ball coach we ever had!
I think my choices would be 1) Northern KY, 2) UIC, 3) Wisconsin Milwaukee which hasn't really been mentioned much. I know their basketball has been down lately but I seem to remember there was a time it was pretty good and the potential should be there for improvement.
It appears that since mvfc is against adding Murray, they are not an option unless they find another home for football so how good or bad their basketball program is really doesn't even matter unless that is solved.
I think my choices would be 1) Northern KY, 2) UIC, 3) Wisconsin Milwaukee which hasn't really been mentioned much. I know their basketball has been down lately but I seem to remember there was a time it was pretty good and the potential should be there for improvement.
It appears that since mvfc is against adding Murray, they are not an option unless they find another home for football so how good or bad their basketball program is really doesn't even matter unless that is solved.
I have been doing my best to get this across without being a jerk. Murray was denied that’s the story. Unless something drastically changes they are not joining the MVC.
let it go
